Rise Above Plastics - Plastics Kill

it take just about 50,000 years for plastic to degrade. Poor world, we are destroying it...

I'm so sick of sensationalist bull crap like this. They can never depict the truth, they always have to make it over the top. Like whales are actually flopping on plastic! Give me a freaking break...

Rise above plastic? Right! So much for LGN, DYOG, and VF...keyboards, mice, computer parts...out of what? Wood? Oh...heck no...not wood...remember we can't cut down the forests. Glass? Really? No exactly designed for heat dissipation now is it?

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

We're surrounded by freaking idiots who don't take the time to think before they act...that's why everyone believed Algore and now we know...no warming for the last 15 years and scientists admit they suppressed and altered data to support the theory.

I'm so mad I'm not even going to check the spelling on this post.

Okay...sorry...rant over (spelling checked).

Topmonkey. The message isn't "KILL ALL PLASTIC USERS!" the message is, don't throw your **** in the sea. Kind of like how you are throwing your ******** onto this nice website.

No, the message is "rise above plastics"...

btw we don't kill the world, the world kills us...

Okay TopMonkey, the whale thing is just a metaphor to show how stupid ****ing idiots like you think that throwig trash all over the world is okay. Well, its not. It takes thousands of years to degrade that ****. BTW the world is ****ing warming up you stupid son of a *****. I hope you fall into your trash and drown you ignorant mother ****er.

That whale rose above the plastic and died. I don't understand the message.

I have no idea how global warming got involved but rise above plastic? Get real. All the stuff they used to make this video was made using materials containing plastic, sent over the internet so that people could troll about how much of a dumb **** I am using their computers made of plastic components about how we are destroying the earth. Yay hypocrisy. (PS global warming is a natural trend in a cycle that has been recorded and proven to be fact. 20 somewhat years ago everyone was screaming the next ice age was coming)

Don't worry about TopMonkey guys. He believes there is going to be a biblical Armageddon anyway, so why would he give a **** about the planet?

At some point they realized that trying to educate people about recycling and saving natural resources and at the same time dumbing them down is a paradox- so they simplify things and bring everything down to basic emotions.. Empathy for animals, guilt, shame.
There was this commercial they pushed on MTV couple of years ago: 'Mary used a hair dryer for 10 minutes longer than she should have. Penguin dies.'

So take all this propaganda with a grain of salt, but don't throw garbage around- if nothing it's an eye sore.

Also, Mouse of Death, in my experience people who use vulgarisms frequently do it cause of their deficient vocabulary.

Ah, so many wonderful comments.
First, Mouse of Death obviously doesn't have the brains God gave a stick. To say "stupid ****ing idiots like you" shows that he/she/it not only didn't understand my comment, but isn't intelligent enough to actually think about the point I was trying to make.

Wyse, yes I do, but you clearly don't have an understanding of what I believe based on your comment. My church teaches we are stewards of the earth and are to take care of it. We believe that when God told man he had dominion over the animals that came with responsibility. I get that some people have religion, some don't, some believe one thing, some another, but why display ignorance and disrespect on the subject? Who do you think that makes look bad...me...or you?

Second, my comment was not about plastics or global warming, it was about the use of extreme images in media designed to scare the public into believing some point of view. Global warming got brought into it because that is the most recent example.

1. Communists 50's
2. Hippies 60's
3. Global cooling 70's
4. Nukes 80's
5. Aids, Meth, teen pregnancy, pretty much everything 90's
6. SARS 00's
7. Madcow 00's
8. Global warming 00's
9. Swine flu 00's
10. Terrorism

My point was...I've had enough.

Some of the comments here are a perfect example of why such messages actually work. Once again, it seems only nika seems to be the first (sometimes only one) who actually seems to understand. She used the word "propaganda" and stated, the perfectly eloquent truth, "so they simplify things and bring everything down to basic emotions.. Empathy for animals, guilt, shame."

I hereby decree there will be no more talk of religion in this video's comments. As far as I'm concerned, we were all secreted from the salivary gland of the space Moctopus. Bad wyse, bad. Sit.

All I really want to discuss is what nika commented.

I do "So take all this propaganda with a grain of salt", but I get the feeling that I am in the minority on that one.

I think, as nika pointed out, that most people get hit at an emotional level.

These posts are the perfect illustration. Instead of actually thinking about what I commented I got insulted personally, and my religion attacked. Why? I think it's because the emotional manipulation of this video actually worked. If you are an ad man...you've done your job. However, do we really want to be this easily manipulated?

One of the issues have have with this kind of extreme propaganda is that not only do so many people believe it or get behind it /without any actual reason/, but it turns those with enough brains to see through it /against/ the cause.
All I've seen of this issue is this ad, so my whole view right now is "these people talking about the devastation caused by plastic are sensationalist, publicity-hungry idiots", when in fact there is a genuine problem behind it.
Context is also vital- there have been estimates of the total number of different species of sea creature being around 10 million. It's entirely reasonable (and very, very conservative) to assume an average of around 10,000 of each creature. That makes an extremely conservative estimate of 100,000,000,000 (100 billion) sea creatures. 1.5 million seem all the big now?
Finally, I lol'd at chewie's comment.

I personally also found chewbaka's comment hilarious.

There is such thing as biodegradable plastics. We don't use them because they cost 7 times as much to make.

The garbage patch of plastic bits in the Pacific is unfortunate and sad. No, whales aren't flopping around on top of it, but nearly every marine creature is now ingesting it and it messes up their digestive tracts and eventually kills them. Unfortunate and sad.

I suspect some point after our extinction, alien geologists will discover our demise was right around the time of the plastic layer in the strata.

TopMonkey, you're kidding yourself. Even if you don't believe warming is human caused, global warming itself is evident and clear. Perhaps you are sick of hearing about the world's many problems, but shutting your eyes and closing your ears doesn't make them go away. But more importantly, if you're going to see no evil and hear no evil, than please stop speaking it as well. ;)

'but nearly every marine creature is now ingesting it'

Nonsense, considering how many marine animals are there, and how many of those due to their small proportions and filtration exclusive nutrition can't ingest anything except zoo and phytoplankton.

More marine animals die from the lack of oxygen caused by Caulerpa Taxifolia taking over Posidonia Oceanica.

The exact reason I don't support this kind of machiavellistic propaganda is cause I *care* about the environment- using this kind of tool in addition to piles of garbage you also get piles of scared people feeling more and more frustrated every day.

We're stuck on the Earth for how ever long it may exist, so why overwhelm people with a problem- why not educate them about solution..?
Miserable, scared mass is easier to control.

Whys said, "TopMonkey, you're kidding yourself. Even if you don't believe warming is human caused, global warming itself is evident and clear."

To which I say...you obviously haven't been watching the news.

The very scientists that supported it, now admit to faking it for money. The UN climate board is under investigation for fraud. And I am the one shutting my ears and closing my eyes? HA!

The fact is, ironically all too evident, A global cool down is more likely.

nika, you sweet perfect woman! I agree with you more often than not, and this is no exception. I love nature, I feel at home in it. I remember the first time I went to the redwoods in California, I walked around with my mouth open and my head to the sky. I DO want to protect the environment. However, I am a conservationist, not an environmentalist. There's a huge difference in philosophy there. In a way religion is a part of this discussion; Environmentalism is a religion, and as happens with many religions they use propaganda to oppress.

SIDE NOTE: I had a 5.5 gallon nano-tank with Halimeda in it...you can guess what happened and I lost 3 shrimp when it did! I keep taxifolia and prolifera both as well but in larger tanks.

First, awesome comment Chewbaka :)

Personally I don't see why you get so upset over a video like this TopMonkey. If you love nature, keep loving man. If videos like this helps convince some less gifted people to do better by speaking to emotions, then it is all good in my book.

"Environmentalism is a religion" - Say what? Littering post with nonsense does not help cause.

Why is it when people don't understand something they don't just ask for clarification instead of calling it nonsense. It's nonsense to you...because you don't understand the point but that doesn't make it actual non-sense.

Also, aso why I get so upset...it's because I put such videos into an historical perspective. Nature is an aside in all this.

This is probably too long, so you won't read it, but... give this a try http://www.crichton-official.com/speech-environmentalismaseligion.html

In case you don't read it here's an important quote from it:

"I studied anthropology in college, and one of the things I learned was that certain human social structures always reappear. They can't be eliminated from society. One of those structures is religion. Today it is said we live in a secular society in which many people---the best people, the most enlightened people---do not believe in any religion. But I think that you cannot eliminate religion from the psyche of mankind. If you suppress it in one form, it merely re-emerges in another form. You can not believe in God, but you still have to believe in something that gives meaning to your life, and shapes your sense of the world. Such a belief is religious. "

Interesting read, but I skipped some parts where he really digressed and talked about his hiking adventures and his view on people vs nature. I usually like Crichton's writings, although he can be very single minded, and this is no exception.

I still think it is pure nonsense to say that environmentalism is a religion, whether coming from you or him. A couple of things:

He compares thoughts of Eden, doomsday, salvation etc between environmentalism and prevalent religions. This is really circumstantial in my opinion. Please let me know if you disagree. In addition, these are the extremes of the environmentalist movement, a subset of what it is. Expecially as ideology but also as actual belief among people (I have proof: I don't believe in these ideas).

He says that questions of environmentalism are questions of faith, not fact. This is not true. There can be speculations of course as in religion, but many effects of our consumption have a proven negative effect on pretty much all living things.

He mentions that you have to choose - salvation or doom - and compares this to religious beliefs. This is very much a matter of personal opinion of an environmentalist. Again he is pointing to the environmentalist followers that do treat it as religion.

Last, he says that environmentalism must be only a science, and never political. This is of course not very thought through. The scientists cannot decide what power sources a country should use, the people must decide. The scientists must let the people know what each alternative means, but after that it must be a political movement (but of course based on scientific facts).

A note:

I am only criticising his comparison between environmentalism and religion. As far as my personal thoughts go, I agree with his general opinion - we must stop putting forth lies about the environmental effects of things, we must stop the fear mongering. Not because fearing the destruction of the environment is bad, but because in excess it risks shifting focus away from the core issues, the things we CAN do to not unneccessarily harm our environment.

YOU: Interesting read, but I skipped some parts where he really digressed and talked about his hiking adventures and his view on people vs nature. I usually like Crichton's writings, although he can be very single minded, and this is no exception.

ME: In this case he was giving a speech on this subject, thus the single mindedness.

YOU: I still think it is pure nonsense to say that environmentalism is a religion, whether coming from you or him. A couple of things:

ME: To use such terms as "pure nonsense" leads me to think you did not read with an open mind. While you may not agree with the premise, it is well thought out and logical. Hardly befitting the term nonsense.

YOU: He compares thoughts of Eden, doomsday, salvation etc between environmentalism and prevalent religions. This is really circumstantial in my opinion. Please let me know if you disagree.

ME: I do disagree. It think the premise has a sound anthropological foundation. The parallels are inescapable and the premise is born out in spades in the works of Joseph Campbell.

YOU: In addition, these are the extremes of the environmentalist movement, a subset of what it is. Especially as ideology but also as actual belief among people (I have proof: I don't believe in these ideas).

ME: Talk about circumstantial...that you believe is anecdotal. Also, I think it is just a matter of defining terms. I see a great difference between conservationism and environmentalism. Environmentalism IS the extreme view...but if don't agree with that just know when you read his speech he uses the word in that way.

YOU: He says that questions of environmentalism are questions of faith, not fact. This is not true. There can be speculations of course as in religion, but many effects of our consumption have a proven negative effect on pretty much all living things.

ME: Recent events prove this point. The science simply isn't there. In the 70's and 80's the prevailing wisdom was toward global cooling, over the last 15 years of data it would see that will actually turn out to be the case. Either way, however, the very scientists that put forth the data have admitted to altering it to get grant money (that's his point about politics). It's a fraud and it's going to take a while before the adherents come to terms with that, because many are feeling a little foolish and when people feel that way they tend to cling to the beliefs.

YOU: I am only criticizing his comparison between environmentalism and religion...

ME: That actually seems the odd thing to criticize since even a cursory look at the subject reveals the parallels. Humanity does have certain traits that all cultures have in common. Just becuase we are "modern and enlightened" doesn't mean we abandon them.

Maybe there is hope yet...
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/environment/climatechange/7440664/Government-rebuked-over-global-warming-nursery-rhyme-adverts.html

They're listening to us! So often I'm angered by the stuff these bodies come out with.. looks like it's a cause worth fighting after all.

Thought this was interesting...
http://www.slate.com/id/2169287/

TM, listen to yourself.

"Recent events prove this point". What? Are you serious? So some scientists ****** up some research, and all of a sudden you draw the conclusion there is nothing in this world that could threaten the environment as we know it?

All of this aside, it is still stupid to say the environmentalism IS religion. I could say that feminism IS religion, or that homophobia IS religion, and show lots of paralells. But that doesn't mean I'm right. You are just making up your own **** facts and pointing at some similarities and calling it proof.

I can accept the following:
"There are many similarities between environmentalism and religion."
"Many followers of the environmentalism treat it as religion."
"We can affect our environment in a good way by being careful with pollution of toxics."

The following are stupid comments, and to be honest pure crap:
"The earth will end if we don't stop using cars."
"The ice caps will melt because of our pollution."
"Environmentalism is religion."

Back statements up with proof, not similarities and circumstances.

The scientists didn't mess up the research...they faked it. The faked data was what has been used to drive the scare, from Al Gore on they've all been using this faked data.

Religion is defined by dictionary.com as:

"a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, esp. when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs."

Given this definition the comparison doesn't sound like "pure crap" to me. And you're right...feminism can be religious in nature with the male talking the place of satan...good point.

It's not just making up stuff, it is actually based on a very clear and long standing thesis in cultural and social anthropology.

I blame a random minority.

Probably true, and that takes us back to my original point. By means of propaganda a small minority are able, via the "big lie" to convince the masses. A random minority...well stated.

Ok, now we are on the same page. I agree that you can view environmentalism as a religious belief for many people, and I think that those people should be stopped from pursuing their frantic behaviour of trying to scare the cheese out of everyone.

I should have remembered...always define your terms BEFORE you start a discussion! :)